This was an outstanding discussion, and I think “Fre(Q) Theory” is extremely useful for thinking politics today, as this conversation highlighted. The points on how “gradually working” in a way that seems antithetical to what one is working toward, or else “conditions of possibility” cannot be changed—I strongly agree, and I think that suggests the “irony” which indivisible from life (a reverse, and “corrective irony,” we might say). I do think “free-ing speech” can help in this effort (which aligns with the points on language), and I also love the point that seeing all this at work (under “The Capital-Nation-State” as Karatani discusses) can help us feel empathy for the other side. Magnificent from you both!
Interesting convo. Great that you guys are discussing this stuff. I feel like another angle is that, if you gain a sense of power through oppositional politics, you inevitably become beholden to that which you oppose. And thus invested in not actually defeating it.
True. Although the basic notion here is not to overcome oppositional politics, per se, but to view oppositional politics as cognitively embedded within each of us as the two basic political impulses of the brain. The "power" you gain is in accepting the intractable dialectic between these two impulses on the level of the individual, and weighting one or the other impulse with a higher degree of agency.
The move towards Christianity isn't purely about transgression, although it is a part of it. It is the inevitable result of the revolutionary impulse rebelling against the Christian story but never being able to fully escape it. It wasn't a truly creative endeavor only a reactionary one. The endless turning of inversion will eventually turn back to where it started. Christ will always rise again! You can't escape Reality!
Also, going to seminary to save Christianity! double Messiah ironical humility inversion complex. I'm sure forming Christianity in your image is exactly what it needs Alex, lol.
Def not purely about that. Although nothing is purely about anything is it. Christianity's new asymmetry has however lent conversion a flair it wouldnt otherwise have, rendering it culturally compelling and transgressive. And ya, tripple ironic inversion the christ lookalike edward sharpe becomes pastor of insurgent church. Shoulda done it. Still should.
No, the civil war was purely about slavery, covid measures were purely about public safety and the invasion of Iraq was purely about liberation from saddam Hussein. ;)
Although it has a flair of transgression that is appealing to a transgressor, I think any weight of that is negligible to the weight of actually taking that plunge. It has a huge social cost. I don’t think anybody would take it on as a facade disingenuously. I think it has entirely to do with the emptying of meaning, the validity of Christianity when viewed from a deep perspective, and everything those truths and tradition have to offer. The dream of the enlightenment secular rationalityis over, and it’s a matter of what religion is going to replace it- woke scientism technology worship? No thanks. I know you don’t want that either but what else can compete
I think one of benefits of being able to set the dominant narrative backdrop for childhood, as Christianity has done in the West, is that all paths do tend to lead back there. I'm not convinced that there really is an equilibrium between left and right, conservative and radical in this sense. The left historically have never been able create the foundational narratives that first taught us how to think about life, and thus later how to rebel. It does seem to be the case that he who plants the first seed gets to reap the crop.
This was an outstanding discussion, and I think “Fre(Q) Theory” is extremely useful for thinking politics today, as this conversation highlighted. The points on how “gradually working” in a way that seems antithetical to what one is working toward, or else “conditions of possibility” cannot be changed—I strongly agree, and I think that suggests the “irony” which indivisible from life (a reverse, and “corrective irony,” we might say). I do think “free-ing speech” can help in this effort (which aligns with the points on language), and I also love the point that seeing all this at work (under “The Capital-Nation-State” as Karatani discusses) can help us feel empathy for the other side. Magnificent from you both!
Interesting convo. Great that you guys are discussing this stuff. I feel like another angle is that, if you gain a sense of power through oppositional politics, you inevitably become beholden to that which you oppose. And thus invested in not actually defeating it.
True. Although the basic notion here is not to overcome oppositional politics, per se, but to view oppositional politics as cognitively embedded within each of us as the two basic political impulses of the brain. The "power" you gain is in accepting the intractable dialectic between these two impulses on the level of the individual, and weighting one or the other impulse with a higher degree of agency.
The move towards Christianity isn't purely about transgression, although it is a part of it. It is the inevitable result of the revolutionary impulse rebelling against the Christian story but never being able to fully escape it. It wasn't a truly creative endeavor only a reactionary one. The endless turning of inversion will eventually turn back to where it started. Christ will always rise again! You can't escape Reality!
Also, going to seminary to save Christianity! double Messiah ironical humility inversion complex. I'm sure forming Christianity in your image is exactly what it needs Alex, lol.
Def not purely about that. Although nothing is purely about anything is it. Christianity's new asymmetry has however lent conversion a flair it wouldnt otherwise have, rendering it culturally compelling and transgressive. And ya, tripple ironic inversion the christ lookalike edward sharpe becomes pastor of insurgent church. Shoulda done it. Still should.
No, the civil war was purely about slavery, covid measures were purely about public safety and the invasion of Iraq was purely about liberation from saddam Hussein. ;)
Although it has a flair of transgression that is appealing to a transgressor, I think any weight of that is negligible to the weight of actually taking that plunge. It has a huge social cost. I don’t think anybody would take it on as a facade disingenuously. I think it has entirely to do with the emptying of meaning, the validity of Christianity when viewed from a deep perspective, and everything those truths and tradition have to offer. The dream of the enlightenment secular rationalityis over, and it’s a matter of what religion is going to replace it- woke scientism technology worship? No thanks. I know you don’t want that either but what else can compete
I think one of benefits of being able to set the dominant narrative backdrop for childhood, as Christianity has done in the West, is that all paths do tend to lead back there. I'm not convinced that there really is an equilibrium between left and right, conservative and radical in this sense. The left historically have never been able create the foundational narratives that first taught us how to think about life, and thus later how to rebel. It does seem to be the case that he who plants the first seed gets to reap the crop.